Talk:Orochimaru
Orochimaru is still a Complete Monster The notion he is a redeemed villain shows how much people misunderstand and misuse these tropes. Orochimaru has yet to show remorse for his long doings, still has his goals of taking Sasuke's body and destroying Konoha, and even tried to steer the conversation with the Hokage's in his favor by manipulating Tobirama's intentions of the Uchiha for Sasuke. He's still acting in his own interests. Just fighting against Akatsuki does NOT make him a good guy or a redeemed villain. He even said he's doing it on a WHIM. Until Orochimaru actually does something redeeming or shows some remorse (unlikely since the manga has only four chapters left) he still is a Complete Monster.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 19:38, October 14, 2014 (UTC) Want Sasuke body yes but not destroying Konoha he had an oppertunity and didn't take it showing a change for the better. That "whim" still was better for the Ninja world than you keep letting on. Hokage probly would have had a hard time no matter what do to his orders. You should just leave the page alone.Shinigami of the North (talk) 20:38, October 14, 2014 (UTC) Shinigami of the North is right & you're definitely wrong SuperSaiyaMan. Orochimaru no longer qualifies as a complete monster due to that he redeems himself & he showed symptoms of remorse in the series. 1. In the Chunin Exams Arc & even before the series started (as seen in Kakashi's backstory in his days as an ANBU in a filler arc in Shippuden), he couldn't quickly finish his own master, the 3rd Hokage, as he still cares for him. Even though he had killed him in their battle, he couldn't destroy most of Konoha when he had the chance. He also felt remorse when he killed his own mentor as he forced Otogakure to retreat instead of furthering his plans. 2. He is against Akatsuki's plans, not only for selfish reasons but for noble deeds as well. 3. He also helped the Shinobi Alliance fight against Obito & Madara. Orochimaru is also shunned with his former apprentice's actions of reviving an entire shinobi army. Orochimaru will ONLY destroy Konoha, not the entire world, as he is against it. 4. Though it is not canon, he deeply cares for Rock Lee in the series as he felt remorse oftentimes. The series portrayed him much like the"Team Rocket trio" & "Doronbo Gang" with Kabuto & Manda, presumingly acting like Meowth. He even saved him when Sasuke tried to Kirin Lee as he himself claims he wanted to do the finishing blow instead of Sasuke. If you haven't watch the series, watch it right now & it will tickle your funny bone from so much laughter & you will tend to like Orochimaru there more better. 5. TV Tropes claiming he is is not an excuse. There are times TT itself gets mistakes which this wiki corrects, which is why I have a balance checking first before editing. (Swoobatman (talk) 01:39, October 20, 2014 (UTC)) :: First off, Paragraph structure is your friend kid. Secondly filler arcs are NOT canon. Third, he ultimately killed Hiruzen and retreated solely because Gaara was defeated and lost the use of his arms. He's never, not ONCE experienced remorse for killing Hiruzen and even mocks him several times. And he's fighting against Mugen Tsukuyomi solely to continue his experiments, not because he cares for the world. Rock Lee and Pals shouldn't even be brought up in a canon discussion.--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 01:53, October 20, 2014 (UTC) :: So people are SERIOUSLY using non-canon spin-off material to disqualify a villain? That is just ridiculously stupid. Honestly, I agree that Orochimaru should be a Complete Monster: The guy has a LAUNDRY LIST of atrocities he has comitted, he has never shown any remorse for what he has done, only helped the heroes out of self interest, and most importantly was never redeemed when the series was over. I agree with SuperSaiyaMan, Orochimaru somehow NOT qualifying shows how little people on this wiki really understand this trope and how it works. NoxiousSludge (talk) 21:39, November 10, 2014 (UTC)NoxiousSludge :: This wiki is only not counting him as he has just barley escaped into the On & Off villain due to fighting against another villain and help save Tsunades's life. Yes he did it all for his own selfish reasons and yes he is a truely vile and cruel person who most if not all of us would have liked to have him alone either imprisoned forever or killed off for good. But doing anything good even for the wrong reasons can disqualify them from Complete Monster status here and I just hope he dies for good in the sequel with Narutos kids.Jester of chaos (talk) 12:56, December 5, 2014 (UTC) At this point I will let the majority decide his status and leave it at that if you want my opinion ask but I hate getting into edit wars and don't plan on getting into another at this time Jester of chaos (talk) 21:57, January 10, 2015 (UTC) BTW SuperSaiyaMan, could you please watch your grammar & "kid" thingy. We are not children, were here the correct things. Its so annoying. Also, CMs are never presented positively so better remember that. (Swoobatman (talk) 13:11, February 7, 2015 (UTC)) How exactly is Orochimaru a Tragic Villain, if he's a Complete Monster? Aren't these two supposed to be the opposites? I haven't really seen much of Part 2, but from what i've seen in Part 1, Orochimaru defenetly appeared like a Complete Monster. User:RandomWrestler Talk 13.39, 2015 He was a Complete Monster for the longest of time the reason he isn't it the following; He escaped into On & Off territory as he once was a genuine hero who turned to the dark side, fought against other major villains during the Fourth Shinobi World War (though it was for selfish reasons), while he continued his research after the war he seems to of gone passive about it (got this info on after the war on the Naruto wiki as I'm not reading it yet), and according to a friend of mine who has read it he has possible ethics with cloning as when asked once a clone is finished then what only for him to say something along the lines they aren't a hive mind but individuals thus shouldn't be seen as merely tools and discarded once their mission was complete. TV Tropes said they might remove him after the Naruto Gaiden ends if there is more pointing to Orochimaru's change in personality after he was revived and or ethics or some other redeeming features. Your right tragic villains aren't tragic and while he loses sympathy he was an orphan who originally wanted to see his family reincarnated, gain immortality for his village and himself only to grow more cynical over time. You can see a better explanation on his section on TV Tropes. While TV Tropes currently counts him a CM a while back there were a few people here arguing over whether he escaped into On & Off or not and it was agreed if ge wasn't manipulating everything or most of the war he would ultimately become On & Off due to changing sides twice or more. So Orochimaru is kind of made out like they did with Itatchi. First introducing them as Complete Monsters, but later make them look sympathetic. I wouldn't exactly say sympathetic but they do make him appear to be Complete Monsters only to later change that fact about him to the point he seems to stop being evil and even now give him a son (though they don't go into detail on how well their relationship). Along with him apparently giving Naruto and Sasuke a lector on the morals of cloning.Jester of chaos (talk) 10:46, September 6, 2015 (UTC) Split on 2 Orochimaru in the original series and the one in Rock Lee aren't really same characters. The former is a sadistic knight of cerberus and big bad, when the latter is comedic and incompatent. The latter is a parody in a different universe. I suggest to make a separate page for the parody version.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 16:43, January 31, 2015 (UTC) Sure, I agree with that. BTW, have you watched that ridiculous spin-off? You'll laugh your bones off once you saw how stupid Orochimaru is. (Swoobatman (talk) 13:09, February 7, 2015 (UTC)) :I did watch that show. If I didn't I wouldn't have put this suggestion. There Oro is completelly different, there he's a comical character instead of a monster. I can't make "crtl+x" of the paragraphs about the parody, because the page is protected.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 14:02, February 7, 2015 (UTC) :It has been protected cause a bunch of foul-mouthed kids who abused TV Tropes usage kept arguing over the all-knowing ones including me that Oro is a CM despite he is showing syptoms he isn't. We have decided to get this page locked since we aren't sure what became of him in the end of the manga & will presume to appear in the anime with an unknown status once the anime series is over. (Swoobatman (talk) 05:43, February 16, 2015 (UTC)) :I just made a separate page for his parody version. The administrators can delete part about the comedic version.FirstDrellSpectre (talk) 12:06, March 6, 2015 (UTC) The Seventh Hokage and the Scarlet Spring and Boruto: The Movie It should be mentioned about his appearances in both this limited-manga series and the Boruto film that after the war Orochimaru was allowed to return to his lab, but was still placed under surveillance due to his past misdeeds. -Adv193 (talk) 16:33, November 3, 2015 (UTC) That Minecraft Picture... So umm... whats the point of that Minecraft picture? It has absolutely nothing to do with Orochimaru or Naruto at all... Elderly A user added Orochimaru to elderly and I agree that he is elderly. He does age and was stated to be 54 by the time of Naruto Shippuden. Now that story is in Boruto, Orochimaru is way past the age of 60. This is an important detail because his age was still recorded even though, he was performing his body-switching immortality jutsu. In the story, it did not state that he stopped in time and could not age any longer when he was performing that jutsu. While he retains a youthful appearance, in Part I when he was around 50-51 years old to Part II when he is 54 years old. He still ages. Also, going off of what is on the elderly category page and the immortal category page, nothing states that immortality can stop a villain from being elderly. He qualifies for the category even if he's gain immortality because he still ages. His appearance may not change much, but his age does. And, appearance does not equal age. Dual89 Proxima (talk) 20:36, September 15, 2019 (UTC)